Curse

NYC Elite · Jul 31, 2011, 07:52 AM // 07:52

I'm glad I VQ'd Cantha before starting WoC. I stepped out there with a group of relatively experienced players and we got our asses handed to us. I'm all for a challenge for the fun of it, but I feel bad for everyone that has to VQ during WoC... I'd cry. There should be some sort of alternate way to vanquish the area in a pre-WoC format.

Does the same thing happen when trying to VQ parts of Tyria after starting WiK? I've been away a LONG time and haven't started either chain yet. I want to catch up with the lore between GW and GW2, but I'll definitely put it off if it means it'll make VQing Tyria even more of a pain in the ass than it already is.

ChrisCo · Jul 31, 2011, 08:40 PM // 20:40

/Signed

Its insanely hard and NEEDS to be fixed. The groups are wayyyy too powerful no matter what builds your using.

hopefully it gets done soon also.

Attiq · Aug 04, 2011, 01:50 AM // 01:50

How many of the people who say they've done it have actually done it after completing the WoC content...... I think the people who are saying they've done it are talking about characters that havent even started doing the WoC.
If you have managed to do it set a link up with video on U-Tube or somewhere showing your build and your actual completion of the area....

I've done a fair bit of reading about this to the point of also going to the official GW's bug forums and one QA person said in reply to someone that they are a aware of it and have no plans to fix it.

So I decided at that point to email support and got the reply that they are aware of it but don't have a time frame of when it will be fixed.... Better than the first answer but still annoying.....

What, to my understanding nobody has addressed yet is, that with Cho's estate in the fix it is right now, it stops four titles in their tracks..... You will not be able to complete four titles...... Canthan Vanquisher, Canthan Cartographer and the two Legendary versions of those titles..... Well maybe Cartographer in NM but forget Vanquisher.

I would really appreciate some build links to manage the area..... I'm a Derv and my fellow player is a monk.... suggest away

Otah · Aug 04, 2011, 11:23 AM // 11:23

If it was intentional then they are having a joke. Maybe mocking the complaints about Hard Mode being a breeze nowadays..

All areas affected by WoC have become harder. Which is good - Haiju Lagoon, Zen Daijun and Shadows Passage for example are all now an actual challenge. They are harder but they are still doable.

Cho's Estate on the other hand... They must have thought it was a 6 man team area or something. I wonder if any of the team actually bothered testing the area before releasing the updates.
It is a lot harder than the other WoC updated areas. Pretty much impossible.
I'd like to see some evidence of anyone vanquishing the area.

I still need that area for vanquisher. I've only completed the NM quests in WoC and I've seen that vanquishing during the HM 'Cleansing Cho's Estate' is doable, having mobs of 5 Afflicted rather than 6+ Scavengers.

But I really don't want to go through all the prerequisite HM quests in the other areas just to unlock this one. The NM quests were grindy enough...

C'mon ANet sort it out!

Jeydra · Aug 04, 2011, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Attiq

How many of the people who say they've done it have actually done it after completing the WoC content...... I think the people who are saying they've done it are talking about characters that havent even started doing the WoC.
If you have managed to do it set a link up with video on U-Tube or somewhere showing your build and your actual completion of the area....

I've done a fair bit of reading about this to the point of also going to the official GW's bug forums and one QA person said in reply to someone that they are a aware of it and have no plans to fix it.

So I decided at that point to email support and got the reply that they are aware of it but don't have a time frame of when it will be fixed.... Better than the first answer but still annoying.....

What, to my understanding nobody has addressed yet is, that with Cho's estate in the fix it is right now, it stops four titles in their tracks..... You will not be able to complete four titles...... Canthan Vanquisher, Canthan Cartographer and the two Legendary versions of those titles..... Well maybe Cartographer in NM but forget Vanquisher.

I would really appreciate some build links to manage the area..... I'm a Derv and my fellow player is a monk.... suggest away

If you can give me a good reason to do this VQ and upload the video (idk, maybe by offering to pay me [a lot] of in-game money), I will. Otherwise, you'll have to be content with my word. I assure you I can do the VQ post-WoC with heroes.

This vanquish can actually get harder if you have more humans, because coordination suffers. Tips for you:

1. Pay close attention to aggro. The moment you aggro too many mobs, scram.
2. Use spirits. The vanquish can be done with one Ritualist hero, but there's little reason not to use two. Set up spirit walls before aggroing any mob, and Longbow pull them.
3. Leave the healing to heroes. Both you and your Monk friend should play for damage. Some emergency healing isn't a bad idea, but the primary aim should be damage. Bring YMLAD and EBVAS; the mobs tend to have only one healer and that's easily spiked out. Once the healer dies the mob is a lot easier to kill. Frozen Soil is not necessary.

I'm sure my view is biased towards AP casters, because I use an Elementalist primary, but there's no reason why any other profession cannot do the vanquish.

OChunx · Aug 04, 2011, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Jeydra, I think a good reason to actually vanquish the area is to prove that it's actually doable. You're the only person in this thread who says that it's doable (even with two rangers) yet you haven't actually killed anything, besides for the "first few mobs". Considering that all the mobs in this 200+ mob area are composed of essentially random spawns of groups, a few mobs don't determine the overall difficulty. It only takes one unlucky spawn of Witches and Chaplains to effectively end the entire vanquish if you can't kill anything.

Seriously, you claim an area to be "borderline easier without Afflicted" to vanquish after you only kill a few mobs, and then ask for a reason to do the vanquish at all.

Gli · Aug 04, 2011, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I'm quite astounded at Jeydra's "mobs tend to have only one healer".

The mobs don't appear balanced across professions and builds like the WiK mobs seem to be. Some groups come at you with overwhelming offense, some are practically unkillable in normal engagements because of the insane amount of protection and healing. I've seen groups with 4 healers/protectors, groups with 4 tricksters, and most funny of all, groups with multiple heal party spammers. It's luck of the draw.

While scouting the place to get a handle of how the groups are composed, I've been able to practically kill anything I've come across by cheap aggro tactics, pulling mobs beyond their reach and cutting off individuals. It would take an insane amount of time to do that until the entire place has been vanquished though, because the area is a giant maze of walls and hills, making that kind of pulling time consuming and annoying.

Brega · Aug 04, 2011, 10:31 PM // 22:31

It was known well in advance of the WoC update, that its content would affect permenant changes to various zones around Cantha. It really seems that ppl working on Vanquishing/Cartographer titles were, extremely foolish to start new content w/o first making sure how or if it would effect them.

It is a long known fact, that having certain quests active/completed can make vanquishes harder or easier. Everyone crying about how hard the spawns are, could have saved all their heart ache if they had bothered to check the quest locations of the WoC content, before they started it.

OChunx · Aug 04, 2011, 11:49 PM // 23:49

That's very true Brega, but it has also been known for a long time that the spawns reset after you complete the quest, just like how there's no more peacekeepers in Kryta after WiK (unless you have a bounty). This time however, on the support forums, Anet has stated that they have no intention of reversing the spawns even AFTER the completion of WoC.

Although I may be wrong since I was gone from GW for the couple months leading up to WoC, but I'm pretty sure if Anet didn't post all the info about WoC (what mobs and maps were to be affected) before the content was released. Just as Gli said, harder was to be expected, but not borderline impossible.

I just think people need to actually go and try to vanquish the area before coming and blaming the problem on hindsight issues and lack of skill.

Link of Anet's statement: https://forum.guildwars.com/forum/fo...age/1#post4115

Jeydra · Aug 05, 2011, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Another way to get me to do the vanquish is to provoke me in some way.

You shall have your screenshot in 18 hours. I'm going to ask you this though. If I do upload the screenshot, what will you do / say?

PS: Note I said "tend" to have one healer. So much for qualifying words ...

Gli · Aug 05, 2011, 12:51 AM // 00:51

If you do the vanquish, I'll say you wasted a lot of time doing something mindnumbingly dreary.

Jeydra · Aug 05, 2011, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Then why should I even bother?

Gli · Aug 05, 2011, 01:28 AM // 01:28

I don't know. I don't need proof that it can be done, because it obviously can. Even the groups most incompatible with someone's particular party setup can be taken down with silly aggro overextension tricks. (If the party setup is decent enough.) I just wanted to draw attention to the unreasonable difficulty of the vanquish when I posted this thread. It stands out like a sore thumb compared to every other vanquish in the game.

Not saying this kind of content has no place in the game, but it should be labeled as 'elite' and have proper rewards. It should not be a silly and annoying roadblock for people going for their vanquish titles.

OChunx · Aug 05, 2011, 01:52 AM // 01:52

I'm gonna say you are incredible Jeydra. Looking at your other end game PvE guide, I'm already sure that you are a very skilled player indeed.

As to why should you bother, I ask why are you bothering to post in this thread at all? My only qualm is that you are arguing for something that you have little to no experience of, and subsequently, very little credibility in. With your refusal to even learn about the subject you are posting about, I don't get why you're posting. If the vanquish is as easy as you say, then it shouldn't even be a "bother".

I'm 100% sure that someone out there has vanquished Minister Cho's estate post WoC, its just that the practicality of it is insane. Consumables, Powerstones of Courage, and maybe even summoning stones seem like a MUST, and even then success seems unlikely. The caliber of skill that this vanquish requires is the unreasonableness that Gli and the fact that it takes a super pro person in order to complete a task so usually simple doesn't help the fact that the VQ is seriously difficult.

The Drunkard · Aug 05, 2011, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Decided to try the vanq with VoR instead of Pinstability, worked well until I DPed from 3 groups that I couldn't split (Yes, these groups all immediately aggroed. No, I could not spiritshit and focus them down while running away) .

Again, something like a HB+MoP spike with splinter support might be able to breeze through, but with heroes you may want to pop cons.

Basically all my pulls revolved around one technique- split up the spirits and let the minions grab agro. Clean up melee with VoR and PI, then focus on the casters.

Jeydra · Aug 05, 2011, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by OChunx

As to why should you bother, I ask why are you bothering to post in this thread at all? My only qualm is that you are arguing for something that you have little to no experience of, and subsequently, very little credibility in. With your refusal to even learn about the subject you are posting about, I don't get why you're posting. If the vanquish is as easy as you say, then it shouldn't even be a "bother".

I'm 100% sure that someone out there has vanquished Minister Cho's estate post WoC, its just that the practicality of it is insane. Consumables, Powerstones of Courage, and maybe even summoning stones seem like a MUST, and even then success seems unlikely. The caliber of skill that this vanquish requires is the unreasonableness that Gli and the fact that it takes a super pro person in order to complete a task so usually simple doesn't help the fact that the VQ is seriously difficult.

You underestimate the amount of experience I have with the area. I did over half the vanquish before deciding it wasn't worth my time, and then I redid the vanquish using two Ranger heroes, again making my way through half the area before quitting.

No, you do not need consumables, DP removals, summoning stones, etc to clear the area. You do need a fair amount of skill, yes, but I do not think the area is difficult enough that only a "super pro person" can do it - the toughest area to 7H is UW HM, 7H without cons, and only the best players succeed there.

I have no firm opinion on the idea that this vanquish is "unreasonably hard", because that is necessarily a subjective opinion. I'll point out though that saying things like "I can't do this vanquish when my friend and I are both Rangers" is flawed. Raisu HM is arguably "unreasonably hard" with 8 Rangers too, but the mission as a whole is hardly difficult.

Do you still want a screenshot of the area vanquished?

Attiq · Aug 05, 2011, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Tips for you:

1. Pay close attention to aggro. The moment you aggro too many mobs, scram.
2. Use spirits. The vanquish can be done with one Ritualist hero, but there's little reason not to use two. Set up spirit walls before aggroing any mob, and Longbow pull them.
3. Leave the healing to heroes. Both you and your Monk friend should play for damage. Some emergency healing isn't a bad idea, but the primary aim should be damage. Bring ; the mobs tend to have only one healer and that's easily spiked out. Once the healer dies the mob is a lot easier to kill. Frozen Soil is not necessary.

Hey Jeydra thanks for your reply. Now I am pretty stupid and never know what things like YMLAD and EBVAS means.... Skill names in full i can understand but as I have actually unlocked a lot of the normal skills from most of the professions on one character and all the elites you've confused me..... Please could you let me know what these skills actually are or at least what profession they are in.... Also can you suggest how to deal with the Minion Masters... as they tend to create a lot of minions fast and that causes mega DPS fast generally before you even get to them..... should I consider some wards???? I do like the idea of both of us humans concentrating on damage so I will try that... I did try a spirit wall and an ele with aftershock one shotted me and all the spirits so I don't know what to do about those.... anyway hope you can continue to give me pointers thanks

fires element · Aug 05, 2011, 12:39 PM // 12:39

YMLAD = you move like a dwarf

EBVAS = ebon vanguard assassin support

Attiq · Aug 05, 2011, 12:47 PM // 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by fires element

YMLAD = you move like a dwarf

EBVAS = ebon vanguard assassin support

Ahhhhh oh ok..... yep had them both in died faster with those skills in than my normal build.... oh well guess those are out then......

Jeydra · Aug 05, 2011, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Dealing with:

Minions - they cannot create minions unless people die, so Longbow pull the minions and kill them. Once you gain in experience you can try fighting them head on, pulling back once you start taking too much damage (that's why you have spirits / minions of your own - they can take damage for you and give you room to run).

Spirits - they're immobile. Execute a pull and they'll just stand there doing nothing.

Prots - one copy of Rend Enchantments somewhere in the team is very helpful; without it you can still wear the monsters down.

Elementalists - as always, flag heroes apart before engaging.

You need Assassin's Promise (that's an Assassin Deadly Arts elite) for YMLAD and EBVAS to work well, just saying.